Eurochat with the Chairman of the European Convention, October 28, 2002 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Extracts of language-related contributions in the English Channel Ian Fantom 2002-11-21 The complete English channel transcripts may be read at . English channel --------------- [en] * Q: [Mon Oct 28 20:16:20 2002] [respro] [805] M. President VGD: Will the convention choose a COMMON, SIMPLE, NEUTRAL SECOND language for all USE citizens as the USA did in 1776? If not, you can forget your USE! * [Mon Oct 28 20:17:25 2002] [Suzanne] [835] Concerning the one language, I think it is no longer a matter of choice, communication and developments of the English language have already chosen for us. English is it for now. * [Mon Oct 28 20:18:30 2002] [Conv_EN3] [868] To REspro from the moderator: Could you ask your question again [Mon Oct 28 20:18:38 2002] [E] [871] Mr. President: Will the EU have one common language * [Mon Oct 28 20:24:28 2002] [respro] [1089] Here my Q again M; Moderator: Will the Convention choose a common language, which must be SIMPLE (not English, French or German, none of the 11/21 ), NEUTRAL (not linked to any specific culture or ethnic group) and it MUST be the SECOND tongue of all USE citizens? Cfr USE 1776. * [Mon Oct 28 20:25:22 2002] [HezbollaH] [1118] ÜIs the 'so-called' president in this channel? How are we going to obtain the answers? * [Mon Oct 28 20:26:20 2002] [Conv_EN3] [1161] To Respro: The citizens of Europe are very keen on keeping their languages. It is a right we must respect. However, we should promote the practical use of a smaller number of working languages in order to have direct dialogue and not to have to rely always on translations. * [Mon Oct 28 20:29:02 2002] [Foederali] [1268] At least one answer from VGE we would not mind. * [Mon Oct 28 20:30:52 2002] [respro] [1345] Where would the USA be today, if in 1776 the founders had not choosen a common lingvo? it happened to be E because of the power of the WASPs. It could have been German, Dutch, Greek or Latin. The futur VSE NEED A COMMON SIMPLE NEUTRAL SECOND language for aal. Only one lingvo INTERNACIA = ESPERANTO can play such an important role in the VSE and later in the whole world. Your opinio M. VGD?? * [Mon Oct 28 20:31:57 2002] [RobertB] [1388] respro: I don't think the EU should or needs to force a single language. You can't eliminate thousands of years of cultural and linguistic history. The Chairman had a very good solution -- work with a small set of European languages. English seems like a good idea. * [Mon Oct 28 20:32:30 2002] [dd] [1403] english is a good idea for native speakers * [Mon Oct 28 20:33:02 2002] [Suzanne] [1428] of course it is not desirable to have one language only. However, for communication purposes it is important that all citizens speak at least English besides their native language. On top of that, the more other languages they speak the better * [Mon Oct 28 20:33:54 2002] [Ivanus] [1459] Cur non Latine et non Anglice? * [Mon Oct 28 20:34:10 2002] [respro] [1484] A small set of tongues is an interil solution, not a long term solution. We have to think big and untill 2099 or something * [Mon Oct 28 20:35:53 2002] [Suzanne] [1548] Well, if you look at the development of the English language over the past few hundred years it seems reasonable to expect this will only increase. I just spent some days with 29 other young Europeans in Brussels and we all spoke English. Naturally, sometimes we used other languages as well, but to be able to tal with all, English is the choice. * [Mon Oct 28 20:36:52 2002] [Ivanus] [1588] Lingua anglica possibilitas est, sed non iusta: lingua materna est non omnibus civibus. * [Mon Oct 28 20:38:20 2002] [HezbollaH] [1638] PeterCosm where is the "Mr. President" right now? Does he have a nickname or is he in this room? * [Mon Oct 28 20:38:38 2002] [european] [1650] Mr president , what do you think about the possibility to use english as a second common language? [Mon Oct 28 20:38:45 2002] [PeterCosm] [1654] dunno! [Mon Oct 28 20:39:00 2002] [HezbollaH] [1665] PeterCosm then to whom are they asking the questions to? [Mon Oct 28 20:39:05 2002] [PeterCosm] [1671] Monsieur le President? [Mon Oct 28 20:39:07 2002] [jost] [1672] We are a class of International Marketing course in Pforzheim Academy of Applied Sciences and our lingua france is English. This is how we communicate pretty fruitful. Yet we are aware of our cultural heritages. Wouldn't it make life in a community of 20+ states easier, when we settled on a lingua franca (as the Roman empire and the US - for vastly different reasons did)? [Mon Oct 28 20:39:16 2002] [Ivanus] [1677] Why non the latin language? [Mon Oct 28 20:39:16 2002] [Silvah] [1678] Can anyone explain to me the exact language policy concerning the EU? Because I'm still in a fuss about that... [Mon Oct 28 20:39:45 2002] [Suzanne] [1699] Mobility of people is extremely important. Meeting and working with Europeans from other MS is a sure way to create more understanding of each other and a greater willingness to unite. [Mon Oct 28 20:39:59 2002] [cathy] [1707] And communicate * [Mon Oct 28 20:39:59 2002] [PeterCosm] [1708] even Maltese will be an official language * [Mon Oct 28 20:40:26 2002] [Silvah] [1726] Peter, but what does "official language" actually mean? [Mon Oct 28 20:40:27 2002] [PeterCosm] [1727] few know latin, but i like it [Mon Oct 28 20:40:36 2002] [Ivanus] [1735] Even Maltese, but non Catalan.... [Mon Oct 28 20:41:10 2002] [Ivanus] [1747] It's true: NOW few know it, but it's just needed time * [Mon Oct 28 20:41:18 2002] [european] [1755] Every state members would mantain their own languages, and english would become the common language, the language of the United States of Europe [Mon Oct 28 20:41:28 2002] [Suzanne] [1762] you would still be able to speak any language you like, just English as well, it is not realy a question of giving up other languages, just making sure that at least people speak English as well as their native tongue [Mon Oct 28 20:41:32 2002] [Michele] [1765] Sorry I do not agree [Mon Oct 28 20:41:36 2002] [PeterCosm] [1766] Silvah............the laws give it dignity by its use in case anybody only knows his own [Mon Oct 28 20:41:40 2002] [Michele] [1768] Esperanto is more neutral [Mon Oct 28 20:41:46 2002] [Michele] [1771] USE is not USA [Mon Oct 28 20:41:57 2002] [Ivanus] [1777] But why english, suzanne? [Mon Oct 28 20:42:03 2002] [jost] [1780] What is the mainstream attitude in the convention concerning legitimity of the president of the comission? Shouldn't (s)he be elected by the Parliament? If not, what is the sense of the Parliament.? [Mon Oct 28 20:42:03 2002] [Suzanne] [1781] nobody knows Esperanto, it is not the language that is used the most nor the onde that develops quickest. English is. * [Mon Oct 28 20:42:10 2002] [Michele] [1787] english is discriminant [Mon Oct 28 20:42:15 2002] [european] [1792] Eu should be much more integrated [Mon Oct 28 20:42:20 2002] [Suzanne] [1793] Why do you feel that michelle? [Mon Oct 28 20:42:21 2002] [Michele] [1794] all languages are egual in Europe [Mon Oct 28 20:42:22 2002] [Ivanus] [1795] Exactly, Michele. [Mon Oct 28 20:42:25 2002] [GregE] [1796] English is spoken in both the united states and by a lot of EU citizens [Mon Oct 28 20:42:38 2002] [Suzanne] [1803] and in Australia, new Zealnd, India etc etc [Mon Oct 28 20:42:46 2002] [Foederali] [1805] This seems to be a one way street and not a chat. [Mon Oct 28 20:42:48 2002] [cathy] [1806] So what exactly is a constitution? I speak Gaelic and we only have Parliaments * [Mon Oct 28 20:42:54 2002] [Hassan] [1813] I agree, englis, swedish or french, what different does it matter [Mon Oct 28 20:42:56 2002] [PeterCosm] [1814] the tower of Babel would collapse! [Mon Oct 28 20:43:01 2002] [Michele] [1819] US dollar is the most used money in the world but we did EURO [Mon Oct 28 20:43:01 2002] [Silvah] [1820] Peter, But to which extent are the "official langiages" used in the EU? Do they just translate the documents in these languages? Or do they also hold sessions using these languages? * [Mon Oct 28 20:43:04 2002] [cathy] [1821] Gaelic [Mon Oct 28 20:43:21 2002] [ElMo] [1839] Latin, is my choice as it is the root of the majority of the languages in Europe [Mon Oct 28 20:43:24 2002] [Michele] [1842] we have to find a EURO language [Mon Oct 28 20:43:31 2002] [Silvah] [1847] Michele, forget it [Mon Oct 28 20:43:36 2002] [Michele] [1851] latin is dead * [Mon Oct 28 20:43:38 2002] [Ivanus] [1854] Rectissime dicis, Elmo!! Vivat!! [Mon Oct 28 20:43:38 2002] [Silvah] [1855] There will bnever be a EURO language [Mon Oct 28 20:43:39 2002] [PeterCosm] [1856] sil i think the right remains, but probable many will be little used [Mon Oct 28 20:43:40 2002] [Suzanne] [1858] in the EP everyone can speak the language they want it is then translated into all other European languages [Mon Oct 28 20:43:49 2002] [Ivanus] [1866] Lingua latina nullo modo est mortua, Michele! [Mon Oct 28 20:43:50 2002] [HezbollaH] [1867] ElMo but latin is outdated. Evolution had its word. [Mon Oct 28 20:43:55 2002] [Hassan] [1872] why just one language we have people who can translate [Mon Oct 28 20:44:00 2002] [PeterCosm] [1876] ivannus..........good! [Mon Oct 28 20:44:04 2002] [Silvah] [1877] "Language" is a natural developing process which can't be forced * [Mon Oct 28 20:44:04 2002] [Guy] [1879] All languages should be respected, however a common tongue is necessary. The most likely candidate is english, due to its allready common nature. Whe shoould also concentrate on language technology [Mon Oct 28 20:44:10 2002] [Michele] [1882] I mean that if we really want to learn all languages first we need a Bridge language [Mon Oct 28 20:44:13 2002] [Master] [1883] I think it is impossible to force everyone to adopt to one common language [Mon Oct 28 20:44:15 2002] [Suzanne] [1884] silvah, that' exactly my point. * [Mon Oct 28 20:44:27 2002] [HezbollaH] [1894] Silvah but language can evolve. [Mon Oct 28 20:44:29 2002] [european] [1896] Why Italians think of French people as foreigners and the same happens between each other state members? * [Mon Oct 28 20:44:32 2002] [Ivanus] [1901] You can explain in Latin everithing you want, Hezbollah [Mon Oct 28 20:44:32 2002] [Foederali] [1903] Ivanus: Why not Chinese, already one Billion people speak it. * [Mon Oct 28 20:44:34 2002] [PeterCosm] [1904] its nice to talk three languages [Mon Oct 28 20:44:36 2002] [Michele] [1905] why you want to force us to learn english if we do not want it? [Mon Oct 28 20:44:37 2002] [Silvah] [1906] Suzanne, you don't happen to be a linguist as well? [Mon Oct 28 20:44:45 2002] [PeterCosm] [1910] good for the mind and heart [Mon Oct 28 20:44:58 2002] [Suzanne] [1916] Chinese is only spoke in China and very few countries outside it, so it is not a world language [Mon Oct 28 20:44:58 2002] [Conv_EN1] [1917] By the way, do you all have any questions on the Convention? Or have you asked, and haven't had a reply? [Mon Oct 28 20:45:00 2002] [PeterCosm] [1920] makes solidarity interesting [Mon Oct 28 20:45:01 2002] [Foederali] [1922] Michele: you do already * [Mon Oct 28 20:45:12 2002] [Ivanus] [1926] Foederali: because it's a mother tongue for this million people. [Mon Oct 28 20:45:14 2002] [Guy] [1929] PeterCosm, thats right, in Belgium we are required tospeak three [Mon Oct 28 20:45:14 2002] [HezbollaH] [1930] Ivanus but I cannot "speak" in Latin everything I want, regardless of the word's origin. [Mon Oct 28 20:45:14 2002] [Suzanne] [1932] :-) I am actualy silvah [Mon Oct 28 20:45:24 2002] [Foederali] [1943] Asked already [Mon Oct 28 20:45:27 2002] [ElMo] [1945] Common language should NOT be imposed, should be reccomended as second language [Mon Oct 28 20:45:29 2002] [Master] [1947] Although we are united as one european community, it does not mean that we should adapt to one culture or language [Mon Oct 28 20:45:33 2002] [Silvah] [1951] Ahaa * [Mon Oct 28 20:45:40 2002] [Ivanus] [1958] Yoa cannot because you don't know latin. Can you in Chinese?? [Mon Oct 28 20:45:40 2002] [Master] [1959] it does not make any sense [Mon Oct 28 20:45:48 2002] [Suzanne] [1968] recommened as a second language, that' ,my point [Mon Oct 28 20:45:53 2002] [Edwjc] [1972] To Conv_EN1, I asked a question about the EU President earlier and did not get a reply [Mon Oct 28 20:45:53 2002] [RobertB] [1973] Greg: Along with various other countries. I don't see the point [Mon Oct 28 20:46:04 2002] [Michele] [1979] acually all of us are forced! * [Mon Oct 28 20:46:09 2002] [Conv_EN1] [1980] Hey! We're the interpreters. Don't you have any questions for President VGE???? [Mon Oct 28 20:46:12 2002] [Michele] [1983] i don't want to be forced * [Mon Oct 28 20:46:27 2002] [Mattias] [1998] English is the most practical, it's a mix between old French and a germanic language... thus it should be easy to learn for most of the Europeean population. [Mon Oct 28 20:46:30 2002] [Ivanus] [2000] What the president think about a neutral language? This is: LATIN ??? * [Mon Oct 28 20:46:56 2002] [PeterCosm] [2015] CONV EN 1? * [Mon Oct 28 20:46:57 2002] [Ivanus] [2018] English is very beautiful when pronounced... ;-) [Mon Oct 28 20:46:57 2002] [RobertB] [2019] Conv_2: A lot of questions have been asked! It seems many are missed [Mon Oct 28 20:47:00 2002] [Suzanne] [2023] you'e not being forced, you could have joined tha chat in your own language as well, but for some reason you already chose to join this one in English, see how it is? You already use English as your second langiage * [Mon Oct 28 20:47:19 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2045] OK, I'm sure it'll soon come, Angelos - there are SO MANY questions coming in, but hardly any in English!!! * [Mon Oct 28 20:47:21 2002] [Suzanne] [2047] i cannot see it [Mon Oct 28 20:47:22 2002] [Silvah] [2048] Oh, strange... [Mon Oct 28 20:47:31 2002] [Silvah] [2051] Well, what is your profession Suzanne? [Mon Oct 28 20:47:38 2002] [Angelos] [2059] well... we're doing our best in here... ;)) [Mon Oct 28 20:47:40 2002] [Foederali] [2060] To VGE: when will the Convention present the final result of its work? [Mon Oct 28 20:47:45 2002] [Michele] [2065] If you do not learn english you do not find job [Mon Oct 28 20:47:48 2002] [HezbollaH] [2066] Silvah you maybe on her ignore list. [Mon Oct 28 20:47:53 2002] [ElMo] [2069] English or Latin Europe ned a second common language [Mon Oct 28 20:47:53 2002] [Michele] [2070] is that a compell? [Mon Oct 28 20:47:57 2002] [PeterCosm] [2074] any moderator present? [Mon Oct 28 20:47:57 2002] [Michele] [2075] yes it is [Mon Oct 28 20:48:00 2002] [Silvah] [2077] Hehhe, that's possible, yes :-) [Mon Oct 28 20:48:05 2002] [Suzanne] [2080] I work in internationalisation of Higher Education now [Mon Oct 28 20:48:10 2002] [Ivanus] [2083] But latin is NEUTRAL and english isn't !!!! [Mon Oct 28 20:48:11 2002] [PeterCosm] [2084] good * [Mon Oct 28 20:48:28 2002] [Silvah] [2093] I see...you're also a native Dutch speaker, right Suzanne? [Mon Oct 28 20:48:41 2002] [GregE] [2101] adopting english as the official universal language of the EU would be a smart thing. [Mon Oct 28 20:48:48 2002] [Suzanne] [2105] but latin is dead. anyway, Euro English is quite neutral, it has many differences with native English [Mon Oct 28 20:49:05 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2118] Euro English isn't neutral - it just isn't English... [Mon Oct 28 20:49:05 2002] [Master] [2119] That is not true what is said about if you don't speak english you are not able to get a job [Mon Oct 28 20:49:10 2002] [PeterCosm] [2122] Is M Valery GISCARD D'eSTAING IN THE CHAT? [Mon Oct 28 20:49:13 2002] [Int_EN1] [2123] < To Nicolis> Can you clarify your question, please. [Mon Oct 28 20:49:14 2002] [HezbollaH] [2124] Suzanne latin is dead but never forgotten or neglected. It is still used in core explanation of some words. * [Mon Oct 28 20:49:15 2002] [nicco_zzz] [2125] GregE: I agree! [Mon Oct 28 20:49:27 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2134] Well yes, he is - have a question for him?????? [Mon Oct 28 20:49:28 2002] [Silvah] [2136] By the way, where is Giscard d'Estaing? Haven't seentoo many replies yet [Mon Oct 28 20:49:28 2002] [ParsaMila] [2137] Is the European Union President here or not? [Mon Oct 28 20:49:35 2002] [PeterCosm] [2145] yes [Mon Oct 28 20:49:41 2002] [Silvah] [2148] The Union President? [Mon Oct 28 20:49:43 2002] [PeterCosm] [2149] can i ask it please? [Mon Oct 28 20:49:45 2002] [Suzanne] [2150] of course, Hez, I know that, but just look at the languages used on the Internet for instance, latin is not used (or not much anyway) [Mon Oct 28 20:49:45 2002] [ElMo] [2151] There advantages and disavantages in using English and Latin, but the NEED of second language is HERE and NOW * [Mon Oct 28 20:49:47 2002] [spithas] [2153] On the language issue: friends, all languages are a product of many centuries in the life of nations. They support great literatures and great thoughts. All languages should be available to all people. With the new technologies, we will fairly soon have the possibility of traslating between languages; more important, we will soon have tools for us to learn fairly easily new foreign languages. Think of the universes of thought open to one who has just learnt a new language! [Mon Oct 28 20:49:48 2002] [Silvah] [2155] The Convention President you mean [Mon Oct 28 20:49:50 2002] [Ivanus] [2157] LATIN is NOT DEAD!! Take a look on, for instance, www.cirlapa.org [Mon Oct 28 20:49:51 2002] [prokey] [2158] I cannot believe that some just cannot accept English as language of international relations [Mon Oct 28 20:49:52 2002] [ParsaMila] [2159] yeah [Mon Oct 28 20:49:53 2002] [stefan] [2160] Latin isn't nerutral. For Italians or Spanish it's easier to learn than for Polish or Finnish. [Mon Oct 28 20:49:54 2002] [RobertB] [2163] This chat seems to work far worse than previous chats! Hardly any answers are coming in. Is this because the chairman's native language is French and most attention is directed to the French channel? * [Mon Oct 28 20:50:07 2002] [ParsaMila] [2171] is the convention president here? * [Mon Oct 28 20:50:25 2002] [respro] [2188] I'm sorry: English is completely unfit as the common USE language and so are all the other ethnic languages. We need a COMLMON, EASY, NEUTRAL, SECOND lingvo internacia! It already exists since 1887. What's your opinion about this very crucial problem M. VGD? [Mon Oct 28 20:50:34 2002] [Andrea] [2197] Ivanus, I agree with you about Latin... but, unfortunately, it'll be most likely a utopia [Mon Oct 28 20:50:35 2002] [cathy] [2198] Mr President. Monsier - yoohoo * [Mon Oct 28 20:50:46 2002] [PeterCosm] [2199] lol [Mon Oct 28 20:50:56 2002] [PeterCosm] [2202] rofl [Mon Oct 28 20:50:56 2002] [Suzanne] [2203] :-) [Mon Oct 28 20:51:01 2002] [Ivanus] [2207] You're right, stefan. But it's not a national language * [Mon Oct 28 20:51:44 2002] [Ivanus] [2231] gratias tibi ago, Andrea! Fortasse veritatem dicis... tantummodo utopia... * [Mon Oct 28 20:51:55 2002] [Guy] [2241] latin would'nt be a bad second choice in the long run. We could start teaching our children more intensely [Mon Oct 28 20:51:57 2002] [Master] [2243] Can I have a response from Suzanne to my question? [Mon Oct 28 20:51:58 2002] [nicco_zzz] [2244] Conv_EN1: The time is almost 9... When are you going to be here the next time? [Mon Oct 28 20:52:01 2002] [stefan] [2247] But Latin wouldn't be a common language. Pronounciation is not standardized [Mon Oct 28 20:52:15 2002] [Suzanne] [2256] sorry, what was your question? [Mon Oct 28 20:52:24 2002] [ParsaMila] [2264] Hello can anyone answer, is the president here or not?? * [Mon Oct 28 20:52:35 2002] [Mattias] [2276] Uhhh.... read your history, Michele, Anglo-Saxian, a germanic language was spoken in the brittish iles befor the norman invation, when the Normans came (they were actually french-speaking vikings) and conqured England they added a lot of grammar and words to the Anglian language. The = le for exampl, this s is not present in any other germanic language [Mon Oct 28 20:52:36 2002] [Ivanus] [2277] Exist the "pronuntiatio restituta" * [Mon Oct 28 20:52:46 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2285] Who exactly among your acquaintances normally expresses him/herself in Latin on a daily basis? [Mon Oct 28 20:52:50 2002] [respro] [2289] Latin is indeed an utopia and not EASY or SIMPLE. It's not NEUTRAL either. * [Mon Oct 28 20:53:03 2002] [ParsaMila] [2299] Mr President are you here? * [Mon Oct 28 20:53:23 2002] [cathy] [2309] I hated latin at school [Mon Oct 28 20:53:28 2002] [Guy] [2314] respro, latin isn't that dificult * [Mon Oct 28 20:53:35 2002] [RobertB] [2320] ParsaMila, yeah, with his staff and interpreters. But it seems like the translation isn't working very well possibly, we are getting very few answers. :( [Mon Oct 28 20:53:48 2002] [Ivanus] [2329] because latin it's learnt like a dead language! [Mon Oct 28 20:53:49 2002] [Tony] [2331] To Steve...a European Union is the one of the ways that a future tyranny can be avoided [Mon Oct 28 20:53:51 2002] [RobertB] [2333] Either that or he doesn't have time to answer anything from the English channel. * [Mon Oct 28 20:54:06 2002] [RobertB] [2346] Which underlines an additional problem with many languages operating in the EU.:) [Mon Oct 28 20:54:08 2002] [ParsaMila] [2349] I havent got a single answer RobertB [Mon Oct 28 20:54:13 2002] [Silvah] [2354] Me neither [Mon Oct 28 20:54:15 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2357] of us here sitting idly by waiting for some replies so we can translate them... [Mon Oct 28 20:54:22 2002] [Master] [2360] To Suzanne: what do you mean that you are not able to find a job if you do not learn English? [Mon Oct 28 20:54:25 2002] [Andrea] [2363] Yes, but latin has common deriivation in most European languages, isn't a national language and... it already exists (it would'nt be more difficult to choose a standard pronuntiation than to invent a new language) 19 * [Mon Oct 28 20:54:33 2002] [Master] [2368] I think it is nonsense [Mon Oct 28 20:54:34 2002] [Suzanne] [2370] huh? I never said that, that was someone else!! [Mon Oct 28 20:54:42 2002] [Suzanne] [2377] I also think that' nonsense [Mon Oct 28 20:54:47 2002] [Silvah] [2381] That was Michele Master [Mon Oct 28 20:54:51 2002] [RobertB] [2384] Conv_2: Your first part of the message seemed to get cut off, could you repeat whatever was before "of us here sitting"? [Mon Oct 28 20:55:01 2002] [ParsaMila] [2392] I am going to leave I just needed a single question answered [Mon Oct 28 20:55:19 2002] [PeterCosm] [2404] I ADMIRE THE DEDICATION OF YOUNG eUROPEANS TO THER English language studies [Mon Oct 28 20:55:22 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2407] Don't we already have enough languages? Why on earth do you want to invent YET another one? Or resuscitate an old one? [Mon Oct 28 20:55:24 2002] [Angelos] [2411] I'm afraid that the only room satisfied tonight will be the french one... :( * [Mon Oct 28 20:55:31 2002] [Ivanus] [2416] Ante magnum defensorem virtutum patrimoniique communium Europeorum, lingua utar nostra communi, non solum Ciceronis Vergiliique, Plini vel Boethii, sed etiam Batavi Erasmi, Poloni Copernici, Galli Cartesii, Angli Newtoni, Sueti Linnei [Mon Oct 28 20:55:34 2002] [RobertB] [2418] Angelos: Sure looks that way. :( [Mon Oct 28 20:55:35 2002] [Sorin] [2419] Ü02Because the language issue is a topic for many messages: I believe is that we will not have an official language. Most important for us, Europeans, I believe should be not the mother tongue but how many languages can we understand and speak. * [Mon Oct 28 20:56:02 2002] [Silvah] [2439] So, how many languages do you understand and speak thren? ;) [Mon Oct 28 20:56:02 2002] [Steve] [2440] D'Estaing heads a coterie of fat-cats determined to become the Eurocracy of Eucratia - immune from prosecution, irremoveable from office and immensely well off. We must stop them before they stop everything which makes life worth while. No identity - no morality. If we do not stop this sinister farce we shall rot away. [Mon Oct 28 20:56:04 2002] [respro] [2443] Guy; Esperanto isa lot easier; even I could master it in 3 months. It's a very vivid and living lingvo. It's the second L on the www; Try google or yahoo and type ESPERANTO, you will be amazed! [Mon Oct 28 20:56:05 2002] [Guy] [2445] that's right sorin [Mon Oct 28 20:56:05 2002] [Suzanne] [2446] sorin, I agree with that as well. [Mon Oct 28 20:56:08 2002] [PeterCosm] [2449] aye aye cathy [Mon Oct 28 20:56:27 2002] [cathy] [2457] adieu * [Mon Oct 28 20:56:32 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2465] I agree with Sorin - no official language (e.g. Latin) has ever lasted the course - it's always simply become something else, in different places [Mon Oct 28 20:56:37 2002] [Angelos] [2468] I was wondering whether we could skip for a while this whole language issue and go a little further... * [Mon Oct 28 20:57:01 2002] [Master] [2492] Adressed to Michele: what do you mean that people will not be able to find a job if they do not learn English? [Mon Oct 28 20:57:04 2002] [Angelos] [2494] I mean, we went through all these decades with so many different languages and it worked just fine... * [Mon Oct 28 20:57:55 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2523] Today you need English to get anywhere; before that it was French; in the future it may be Chinese; long, long ago it was ancient Greek... nothing changes [Mon Oct 28 20:58:06 2002] [prokey] [2537] ElMo I think that this issue should not be the agenda of the convention [Mon Oct 28 20:58:24 2002] [Angelos] [2548] I'm afraid the Mr Chairman is chatting with the french room and we all, in the other rooms, are chatting with the moderators... * [Mon Oct 28 20:58:35 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2559] It isn't- I'm just joining in your discussion because I'm bored. No work is coming my way. [Mon Oct 28 20:58:46 2002] [respro] [2563] AGAIN: ESPERANTO FOR PRESIDENT OF THE NEW UNITED STATES OF EUROPE!!! [Mon Oct 28 20:58:49 2002] [Angelos] [2565] no offence... it's just that not everyone can answer all questions... [Mon Oct 28 20:58:52 2002] [Silvah] [2567] Conv_EM1, what is your work then? * [Mon Oct 28 20:59:36 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2604] I'm one of the interpreters into English for this chat. But since we're not getting any replies to translate, we're not doing a great deal... [Mon Oct 28 20:59:40 2002] [Ivanus] [2606] Esperanto or Latin... but not english, my God! [Mon Oct 28 20:59:56 2002] [RobertB] [2617] Already an hour has been wasted an how many answers have we gotten to relevant questions? 1? 2? * [Mon Oct 28 21:00:32 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2650] Well, why not just pick Finnish? Or Hungarian? Or Wolof? Why a completely new or a dead language,,, [Mon Oct 28 21:00:46 2002] [Tony] [2658] tell that to Chirac Master [Mon Oct 28 21:00:56 2002] [RobertB] [2669] Conv_2: Why is the president ignoring us?? There seems to be LOTS of activity in the French room but I don't understand French * [Mon Oct 28 21:01:58 2002] [Master] [2717] Mr. President: I thought that this chat room was meant for all EU citizens and not only for the Frenh! * Why should they voluntarily place themselves under another federal system? [Mon Oct 28 21:02:06 2002] [Nita] [2725] does somebody answer in English room too ? [Mon Oct 28 21:02:08 2002] [PeterCosm] [2726] maybe he'll come now that we,ve settled into silence [Mon Oct 28 21:02:08 2002] [Milad] [2727] Mr. President why should England be part of the EU? [Mon Oct 28 21:02:08 2002] [Jop] [2728] What about Catalan? Can Europe ignore a 7 million spoken language? * [Mon Oct 28 21:02:40 2002] [Master] [2749] I am in the English room, but I do not receive any response [Mon Oct 28 21:02:52 2002] [RobertB] [2759] HezbollaH: Well, no other question is getting answered either. Clearly the time is spent with the French electorate * [Mon Oct 28 21:03:08 2002] [ElMo] [2771] In this Chat We can see the disadvantages(chaos!!) of not having a common second language in the Eu [Mon Oct 28 21:03:22 2002] [Cllr] [2782] Phillip - how so? [Mon Oct 28 21:03:26 2002] [Ivanus] [2790] Ara t'escolto, Jop. QUID CUM LINGUA CATALAUNICA?? [Mon Oct 28 21:03:27 2002] [PeterCosm] [2791] Steve...............its a magnificent beaucracy..............at our service in our common relationships [Mon Oct 28 21:03:27 2002] [Angellos] [2792] to: Robert. B> I\m afraid the Chairman is chatting with the french chat room and we are chatting with the moderators... * [Mon Oct 28 21:04:57 2002] [HezbollaH] [2884] RobertB well, he is French. And once was a President. * [Mon Oct 28 21:05:16 2002] [Master] [2903] Dag Suzanne, spreek je later! [Mon Oct 28 21:05:20 2002] [Suzanne] [2905] doei * [Mon Oct 28 21:05:27 2002] [Silvah] [2910] Heheh, zie je wel :-) [Mon Oct 28 21:05:34 2002] [Cllr] [2917] Phillip - I'm waiting. How is democratic centralism converse to federal operations? * [Mon Oct 28 21:05:42 2002] [Conv_EN1] [2923] If you had "a second common language", as you say, then a different set of people would be left out - those not in the elite who can speak that language [Mon Oct 28 21:05:44 2002] [Nirgal] [2926] Master: I believe some answers have not been translated back into english. The french channel is quite flooded with questions. Some official said an official cleaned log of all the Q/A will be available in two weeks in all languages... (Don't blame me, I'm just simple user) * [Mon Oct 28 21:07:27 2002] [ElMo] [3014] Second languague means Additional to the mothe language and to be teach from Primary School, in ten years all ctizens of the EU can talk to echa other [Mon Oct 28 21:07:32 2002] [HezbollaH] [3017] RobertB too bad our French language is weak. * [Mon Oct 28 21:07:43 2002] [Conv_EN1] [3028] Re the answers from the President and his staff - I think they're just overwhelmed by the vast number of questions, they're way behind * [Mon Oct 28 21:08:33 2002] [Conv_EN1] [3068] Isn't English already being taught in all primary schools in Europe? * [Mon Oct 28 21:08:51 2002] [Angellos] [3076] sould we at least hope that these answers will be answeres even after 21.30 and these answers will be included in the log afterwards? * [Mon Oct 28 21:09:42 2002] [Conv_EN1] [3118] Not really - I just think there are so many other educational priorities that language teaching just has to take its chances with all the rest * [Mon Oct 28 21:10:11 2002] [RobertB] [3142] I understand that they might be behind. But after more than one hour I have seen only one or two answers. I am starting to believe that the chairman and his staff is purposely ignoring other rooms but the French. * [Mon Oct 28 21:11:47 2002] [Angellos] [3202] >To: Robert B.> I'm not sure whether i remember correctly, but i have the ompression that in some previous chats we coulc pose out questions in advance and we could have at least some answers right away... Am i wrong? * [Mon Oct 28 21:12:55 2002] [Persia] [3251] Is the President here or not? [Mon Oct 28 21:13:18 2002] [Conv_EN1] [3268] Yes, the President is here in the room - sitting right across the way from me, in fact; [Mon Oct 28 21:13:24 2002] [RobertB] [3270] Angellos: You're right, but the interpretors would just paste such pre-sent questions into the chat so I'm not sure it would work better than now since it looks like everyone is being ignore. I totally do not understand why the convention and staff are answering questions constantly on #fr but nothing at all here. The chairman should remember that most EU citizens do not speak French and this disaster chat is not going to get citizens to look on him favourably [Mon Oct 28 21:13:25 2002] [ElMo] [3271] We should keep trying with question like common language and united foreign policy, very important questions. Please Mr. President Why do´nt you answer them? * [Mon Oct 28 21:13:52 2002] [Sorin] [3291] Persia Ü02you can see Him at http://www.europa.eu.int/comm/chat/chat_camera/chatcam_en.htm [Mon Oct 28 21:14:07 2002] [Persia] [3301] ok thank you Conv_EN1 you know it's just I have been asking the same question for 30 minutes without no answer but thanks * [Mon Oct 28 21:14:11 2002] [Silvah] [3304] Mr President! Look at the computer! ;-) * [Mon Oct 28 21:14:12 2002] [Angellos] [3306] I have both chat rooms in front of me.. the difference is impressing... * [Mon Oct 28 21:14:34 2002] [RobertB] [3320] Angellos: indeed it is. Please, could some interpreter who speaks French ask the president what the heck is going on here?? [Mon Oct 28 21:14:50 2002] [RobertB] [3330] Are our questions even being relayed to the president? * [Mon Oct 28 21:15:18 2002] [ukip] [3362] ukip. should'nt we all realise now that we have all been wasting our time! Many questions, NO answers! This perfectly sums up the E.U> [Mon Oct 28 21:15:24 2002] [helen] [3365] what typre of european union does the president think we will see after enlargement [Mon Oct 28 21:15:30 2002] [Angellos] [3370] Alors, MrVGE. Que'est-ce qu'on vas faire? * [Mon Oct 28 21:16:05 2002] [Angellos] [3397] nous n'avons pas des reponses ici... * [Mon Oct 28 21:16:46 2002] [zulko] [3430] Ou sont les réponses?? * [Mon Oct 28 21:17:01 2002] [ElMo] [3445] We are arguing and talking among ourselves, The President is talking to the ...french. [Mon Oct 28 21:17:15 2002] [Persia] [3456] Mr. President, why do you think England should be part of the EU [Mon Oct 28 21:17:26 2002] [PeterCosm] [3464] conv just answered Angelos * [Mon Oct 28 21:18:01 2002] [Conv_EN1] [3491] Whenever I start a message with the words "to So-and-So", this is an offical answer from the President which I have just translated. * [Mon Oct 28 21:18:51 2002] [Ivanus] [3530] Lingua Anglica, nativa Britannis & Hibernis, emolumento est eis in negotiationibus, detrimento aliis. Nonne justius est linguam neutram invenire? Quenam habet plus historie communis Europee quam Latina, que in multis scholis et universitatibus docetur? * [Mon Oct 28 21:19:56 2002] [ElMo] [3575] Ivanus: Congratuletions !! [Mon Oct 28 21:20:24 2002] [Ivanus] [3593] Non merentur, Elmo. Sed gratias plurimas! ;-) * [Mon Oct 28 21:23:34 2002] [Andrea] [3765] Sic est, Ivane. * [Mon Oct 28 21:25:41 2002] [PeterCosm] [3872] why didn't it work well [Mon Oct 28 21:25:51 2002] [fox] [3884] What about a common language for europe (not single) ? [Mon Oct 28 21:26:00 2002] [Angellos] [3889] I'm Greek myself and chose to enter the english chat room, cause i thought that i would get my answers sooner... * [Mon Oct 28 21:26:28 2002] [Angellos] [3907] if i insisted in asking my q. in greek... [Mon Oct 28 21:26:30 2002] [paulie] [3909] everyone should be allowed to speak whatever language they like [Mon Oct 28 21:26:36 2002] [Angellos] [3913] would i wver get any repliers??? * [Mon Oct 28 21:27:47 2002] [fox] [3969] What will be the future common language of europe ? *R* [Mon Oct 28 21:27:50 2002] [Conv_EN3] [3973] To Respro: The Convention has not debated the language issue * [Mon Oct 28 21:28:00 2002] [paulie] [3983] Foz clearly Esperanto * [Mon Oct 28 21:28:11 2002] [paulie] [3992] fox or english LOL [Mon Oct 28 21:28:13 2002] [RobertB] [3994] fox: Oh please not that, that has been asked about a hundred times before and the answer has been that the chairman does not feel there will be a single language :) * [Mon Oct 28 21:28:28 2002] [PErsia] [4014] has the President gone? [Mon Oct 28 21:28:34 2002] [fox] [4015] What's about an equality of rights between EU citizens whatever the State they live ? * [Mon Oct 28 21:29:12 2002] [ElMo] [4048] Mr. President in view of the large number of people interest in the language issue, will the convention study it now? [Mon Oct 28 21:29:17 2002] [Angellos] [4050] :) * [Mon Oct 28 21:29:23 2002] [PErsia] [4058] has the President left or? * [Mon Oct 28 21:29:52 2002] [Angellos] [4082] i'm afraid it's already 21.30... :(( [Mon Oct 28 21:30:09 2002] [zulko] [4090] 21.29 [Mon Oct 28 21:30:10 2002] [Milad] [4093] so the president has left? * [Mon Oct 28 21:31:45 2002] [respro] [4180] to Conv_EN: than it is high time they address this burnig problem! Politicians seem either not to understand the importance of the issue, or they seem to be scared to propose a sound log term solution. JL DEHAENE knows what I am talking about. What we need in this continent are real statesmen, with vision ad courage. Where are they M. VGD???? * [Mon Oct 28 21:35:32 2002] [respro] [4367] AGAIN MY DEAR EU FRIENDS : LET'S VOTE ESPERANTO FOR THE FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE NEWBORN UNITED STATES OF EUROPE. WE ARE A LOT STRONGER THAN THE OTHER US. WE NEED A COMMON SIMPLE NEUTRAL AND SECOND LANGUAGE FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING AND FOR IMPROVED COMMUNICATIONS * [Mon Oct 28 21:39:56 2002] [respro] [4586] That's all folks. VGD went home. It's past 21:30 in Brussels * [Mon Oct 28 21:41:22 2002] [HezbollaH] [4666] ÜThank you mister president for sparing your time.